diesel hot water....... is it worth it?? - Track Trailer Forum

Depends on your circumstances and the places you intend to spend most of your time.  We have a small child and are planning to spend longer in the cooler south than the North, so bought the diesel hot water and absolutely love it.  You get the heat tenting, which is really effective, the hot water at the sink is great, and the shower is fantastic.  So easy to use and well designed to fit in with the Tvan and the ensuite, and you don't have to worry about gas bottles which is great for one night set-ups.  We haven't got to use it in the real cold weather yet (i.e. below 15 degrees) and it has still been very useful, I can't wait to use it in the snow.  The diesel usage is tiny, we go away for a week and only use a few 100ml of diesel.  I can understand why people don't think it is necessary, it is an expensive luxury, but one that we are very glad we purchased.  We used an AquaCube and ensuite for years pre-child, so understand that they aren't that much extra work; but for us now we wouldn't go back.

By the way we purchase a large bucket (around 80cm wide and about 25cm tall) that we use for showers;  we have used this to have shower in the ensuite or quick washes (especially for our child) in the Tvan tent; the hot water hose has enough length to do both options without any issues, and you can just put your hand outside the tent to turn it off quickly when your finished.  The head is quite water efficient and has a trigger function which is great for washes without wasting water.

Quote from: smahoney79 on March 10, , 06:02:55 PM
im wondering if the diesel hot water is worth getting. im in the process of researching different options and if they are a good option to have.

We're up in QLD, so the hot water has never been as critical to us, and after all the plumbing issues we had with our new mk4, I'm also reluctant to push water out to the kitchen (hot or cold)
(We do have a joolca we use occasionally though)

Quote from: smahoney79 on March 10, , 06:02:55 PM
Also i would love to hear of the things you cant be without and why. along with the things you have and probably don't seem to need

• Second fan. (one each will avoid any arguments)
• Sliding shelf above the fridge. We don't have one but wish we did. (the shelves weren't even on the extra's list at the time, and they hand't got to the sliding part yet)
• Quick Awning.  Whether it's the new fox wing style, or a standard one on either Barons or a Trek Tech, wouldn't be without it.
• Lights. Part of the attraction of the Tvan for us was not having to set stuff up, and that should include lights. We have the kitchen light and then an extra on each side of the hatch. (drivers side for showers etc)
• Rear Camera. Maybe it's just me, but I find driving with the rear camera so much easier.
• Overhead storage nets.  I'm not sure if anyone doesn't get them ? but they're great for clothes.

I have owned/own both types (a portable Luxline 8 – similar to Joocla – and Webasto diesel in MarkIV T-Van) and offer the following for you to consider:

Portable units:

•   These units need to have plenty of ventilation, like outside of a shower tent, to mitigate the potential for adverse effects like carbon monoxide and gas leaks.

•   If not connected to a pressurized water source (as is the case when remote camping) a separate pump (supplied with Luxline) needs to be wired into a 12Vdc supply.

•   A 4.5kg gas bottle will provide 6-7hrs of operation of the unit

•   A separate portable water tank (or a water bladder like the 60l Fleximake) or large bucket will be needed to supply water to the unit if a local water source (river) is not within reach. Note: these water pumps have a limited head so will struggle to lift water from a river above a couple of metres.

•   To reach the maximum water temperature (50degC) the water needs to be circulated. Unit cuts out heat at 50degC (safety requirement).


Webasto:

•   Use diesel or 230Vac when available. Diesel consumption is ~0.5l/hr.

•   The Mark IV draws all water from the on board tanks whereas I believe the MarkV allows for an external connection to a water source however I am unsure whether the MkV pumps water into the tanks directly or allows a bypass. I suspect the former is the case.

•   Water is circulated through storage tank during heating and mixed (with cold water) to limit the temperature to a maximum of 55degC (safety requirement) however this setting can be adjusted at the mixing valve on the Webasto unit.

•   The storage tank holds between 15 – 25l (depending on which size has been installed in the T-Van). On the MarkIV there is about 5-8 minutes of hot water available from the tank while on the MarkV this has been reduced to 3-5 minutes (and therefore reduces the amount of space the system takes from the under-bed storage area).

•   When connected to 230Vac, the water heater takes ~10 minutes to heat the water in the storage tank whereas when using the diesel system, heating the water can take 20-30 minutes. These times are very rough estimates as the heating time depends on the starting temperature of the water source.

•   The diesel system uses 12Vdc supplied from the T-Van batteries and when operating can draw power equivalent to running a 60l car fridge.

•   The integrated hot water (and heater) system available on later model T-Vans (Mark IV & Mark V I believe) comprise a Webasto diesel water heaters (manufactured in Germany) and the Isotemp water heater (manufactured by Indel Webasto Marine in Italy, which is a joint venture between Webasto/Germany & Indel/Italy). The Isotemp comprises a stainless-steel storage tank (15, 20 or 25l – I'm not sure which size are used the T-Vans) with an electrical 230Vac heat exchanger when a mains supply or a power generator is available. Alternatively, the diesel water heater will circulate water in the tank to heat it when a 230Vac source is unavailable.

If you do elect to option your T-Van with the integrated Webasto hot water system I would suggest you consider the following points:

•   The diesel Webasto heater uses power from the 12Vdc system for the glow plugs, combustion air fan, circulation pump and ancillary electronics. Initial current draw momentarily peaks at 17A before dropping down to ~7-10A (I assume for the diesel combustion chamber glow plugs) and then will settle at ~2-3A while the water is heating which could take 20-30 minutes depending on initial water temperature. If the Webasto is run continuously then it will cycle between the two (10A for a minute or two and then back to 2A until the water temperature is brought back to set-point). Having the optional second 110Ahr AGM installed in the T-Van would be advisable as the Webasto consumes as much power as a second fridge! (Also consider portable solar panel(s) to keep the batteries charged and maybe a generator if you want to go off-grid for a considerable length of time in less than ideal conditions that are suited for efficient solar panel operation – like on cloudy or overcast days.) I only run the Webasto when I need to heat water and then switch it off to conserve the batteries.

•   On the MarkIV the timber decking under the mattress (above the storage/drawer area and water heater area) was riveted to the metal frame which doesn't lend itself to in-the-field maintenance should that be required. Check that this decking can be easily removed (screws into captive threaded nutserts rather than riveted). If not get Track to make this modification. (I needed to cut short a trip when the hot water hose split in the storage tank area which I was unable to access to make the repair myself.)

•   Make sure you get a metre or so of the hot water hose from Track in case of hose split. Aside from the previously mentioned issue I have experience other leaks from a split hose and leaking joiners (another aborted trip) so keep hose-clamps and hose-joiners in your spares kit as well.


Both approaches to generating hot water have their good points and bad points with no one system being ideal – you will only have that at home (mostly)! If you initially opt for the portable system then note that the T-Van cannot at a later date be retrofitted with a Webasto – unless you are prepared to sell a kidney or a child!

Hope this gives you a bit more information to help you to decide which way to go.